MTB Opinions?

"benjrblant" (benjblant) 03/04/2019 at 11:17 • Filed to: None

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Found a 2018 Hightower LT, C, R build spec marked down and wanted to get some opinions on it.

MSRP is $4k, this one was marked down to $3k. Specs include Rock Shox Revelation 150mm fork, Fox Float Performance DPS rear shock, Sram NX 10-42t drivetrain, Race Face AEffect crankset (30t) and some WTB STP tubeless rims. Not a fan of the SRAM brakes or the XD driver and 10-42t cassette, but might be worth upgrading the frame later?

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Spanfeller is a twat > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 11:33

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A friend of mine is selling that very model, used, for 3,6 00$, so...np

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 11:36

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I assume  it’s brand new, so NP all day long. Santa Cruz’s warranty is tops, and the HTLT is super highly recommended by many.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 11:42

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The Ghost of Oppo > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 11:42

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Damn Santa Cruz has carbon FS 29ers builds starting at $4k these days? Looks like I might be in the market for a new bike.

It isn’t the best spec’d build ever, but $3k for a brand new 150mm travel carbon bike.  Sounds good to me

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 11:43

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I think if I had the money I would go for a higher level build kit, NX is like SRAM X-7. At least get GX. I think the revelation is also a step below the Pike and Yari, I’m not sure how but that’s what I recall, it still has 35mm stantions but maybe the internals are not as good?

This is also an 11 spd build and everything this year is 12 speed, that’s not a bad thing but the front ring better be a 28 or 30 otherwise climbing steep trails is gonna be a grunt.

I agree about the brakes at least get the SRAM Guide R’s, or Shimano XT’s.

BeaterGT > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 11:47

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NP in my opinion. Wouldn’t be my first choice in color though.

nermal > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 11:52

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Counterpoint:

https://www.commencalusa.com/meta-am-29-essential-fox-sand-c2x26760993

Pros: Better specs all around, for about the same price you’d pay for buying local with tax and whatnot. FAST. Squishy. Will save your butt when you do dumb stuff.

Cons: Heavy. Pedals like a brick. Will encourage you to do even more dumb stuff than usual.

The biggest shortcoming with either build will be the wheels and rubbish Novatec / Formula hubs. If you must support your local shop, buy the direct bike and have the shop  build you a set of wheels with good quality hubs. 

benjrblant > nermal 03/04/2019 at 11:58

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Damn, that’s a pretty good build spec. But AL frame? Hm. Worth considering- thank you.

benjrblant > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 03/04/2019 at 11:59

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I’d rather pay for frame and suspension. Drivedrain components are relatively easy to swap out when they wear/break. 11spd suits me well enough- I don’t need all the new hotness.

benjrblant > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 03/04/2019 at 11:59

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It is, brand new and unridden, from a shop here in town.

benjrblant > Spanfeller is a twat 03/04/2019 at 12:00

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So I should buy it and resell it for $3600?

benjrblant > BeaterGT 03/04/2019 at 12:00

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Aye, Not a huge fan of the color. I much prefer 2019's colors, but I don’t know if I’d pay $1k extra for a color. (plus some other tidbits)

benjrblant > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 03/04/2019 at 12:02

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Yes, I’d like to spend this amount of money on a machine that is explicitly illegal to ride on all of my favorite trails.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 03/04/2019 at 12:06

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This.  For that much money the bike has to pedal itself.  Actually, I’ve got some friends who are into biking (mountain and road) in a serious way.  It almost makes the racecar look affordable. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 12:09

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It seems like a great deal. If you like it then go for it.

Spanfeller is a twat > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 12:09

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The market in Mexico is more expensive than in the US and Europe because of import fees and how niche it is ... but if you find a new one for 3000 dollars in either market, it sounds like NP.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 12:15

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I have 11 sp GX on my stump jumper and it works great, no complaints. I have a 28 front ring with the 10-42 rear cassette and I’m spun out around 20 mph. The easiest gear seems fine unless I just finished a 2 hr climb then I kinda want one gear easier to prevent pushing on really steep sections.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 12:17

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Oooh yeah nice. Without a doubt NP

To me its crazy that 4k these days only gets you NX and a revelation, but here we are...

benjrblant > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 03/04/2019 at 12:18

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I was just saying this to a friend! I can’t believe that $4k gets you a decent entry level bike. what gives? That’s nuts.

TheRealBicycleBuck > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 12:18

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The first thing to ask is what kind of riding do you plan to do? Although they call that an “all- mountain” bike, it’s what we used to call a downhill bike. If you don’t live near a downhill trail, preferably one with a lift, then you’ll be stuck riding cross-country on a heavy bike with lots of bounce, meant for bombing the hills. Where I live, that bike wouldn’t be a lot of fun. Where you live it may be a lot different.

The rear suspension setup will result in the shock compressing on every pedal stroke. Again, it’s fine for bouncing down hills, but it will waste some of your effort when riding flat trails or climbing. I know, I’m thinking like a cross-country rider. I have to think like that - there’s almost no coasting on our trails.

It looks like the new SRAM 1x12 gear isn’t compatible with the older 1x11 gear (no surprise). Although SRAM has taken steps to improve the wear, cramming another ring into the cassette means narrower rings and chains to go with them. That means more wear on the parts because the mating surface between the chain and the gears is smaller. I t also means less aftermarket support because the new SRAM chain has some advanced design work to make it wear longer. It will take some time before the aftermarket catches up and replacement chains are available everywhere.

Keep that in mind if you are thinking about upgrading the drivetrain one part at a time. Incompatible parts means you will have to invest in new rings, a new cassette , new shifters, and a new rear derailleur all at the same time.

benjrblant > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/04/2019 at 12:30

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I’m in Denver and regularly ride lots of elevation gain and descent in the front range/west slope and Utah . I wouldn’t call it downhill per se, but >115mm rear travel is the norm out here.

I think I’m mostly on the fence about the fork, brakes, NX level drivetrain, (and color) on such a big investment. I feel kinda meh about it and that’s not the feeling I’d like when considering this amount of money. Having said this, I’m also somewhat particular and realize that getting all of my ideal components means custom build which is even more expensive.

TheRealBicycleBuck > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 12:40

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If you’re unhappy about any part of it, don’t spend the money. That’s a quick path to regret, especially on a $3,600 investment.

I hear you what you are saying about a custom build. I really want to build a touring bike with room for big tires, plenty of mounts for racks, a moustache bar (yeah, I’m weird), barcons, disc brakes, and S&S couplers. My Redline meets most of the requirements, but it’s not quite there yet.

The thing I’ve learned about myself is that I’m better off if I buy it all in one package. This bike was bought as a frameset and I built it up with other parts I either had in the garage or bought new. I still want to do the disc brake upgrade but I don’t want to spend the money on new wheels and the calipers (the ones I’ll get will work with road levers). It’s hard to justify the expense when what I have is working fine.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/04/2019 at 12:43

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That’s becoming the norm for a trail bike in my area too, I have a 135 mm travel stump jumper and it seems like too much unless I’m just sending it at a gnarly free ride type area. The newer bikes pedal really well uphill, it’s the weight that kills you. I think my carbon stump jumper with SRAM GX and nice wheels is still at 30 lbs. My trek in 1995 was 22 lbs!

benjrblant > TheRealBicycleBuck 03/04/2019 at 12:53

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Hm, perhaps I should hold off then. I just don’t have a great feeling about it.

I just updated my steel hardtail to 1x11 XT drivetrain with BB7's and a Salsa Bend handlebar. Setting it up for a big bikepacking trip this summer, so I know how you feel!

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 13:10

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I’m currently considering buying my first decent mountain bike. Currently I have old 26” rigid bike that I got for free and haven’t ridden in 5 years because it’s no fun. I’m trying to spend less than 1000, and most likely buying used. Currently considering a 2018  Specialized Rockhopper Pro that I found used.

I’d also like to upgrade my road bike, and can’t affird to do both.

So what I’m getting at is that I’m no help to you. Lol

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 13:15

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I’ve been wanting to add a 5010 to the stable (stable of one lol) but I don’t want to buy a bike with cheap components again, and its very very hard to mentally justify dropping over $4k for anything let alone something I don’t strictly need .

benjrblant > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 03/04/2019 at 13:18

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Hah! That’s alright. Gotta start somewhere. Depending on where you live and what trails you ride, full squish might be overkill. I’ve ridden a hardtail for YEARS, even out here in the rockies. It’s fully sufficient if not maybe a bit slower than most.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 13:21

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A lot of people like to think a dirtbike is somehow a legitimate comparison, while willfully ignoring the fact that trails that allow dirtbikes are even more limited (like you said) , everything about maintaining a dirtbike is far more expensive and labor intensive/time consuming , not to mention the additional costs of buying a trailer for it, getting your car tow ready ( if you even have one that can tow), etc.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 13:29

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Yeah I don’t plan on doing any crazy downhill stuff so I think a soft tail would be unnecessary, just extra weight . But that 26” with no suspension made pretty basic single track an absolute slog, it was annoying that my bronther in law was blasting by me on his 29” without breaking a sweet even tho on road bikes I can out pace  him most of the time just because I’m a bit stronger.

I’m pretty set on at least getting a 29” and I want something that will last more than one season, so no chain store cheapos.

benjrblant > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 03/04/2019 at 13:42

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I hear that. I’d much prefer a custom build on this bike, but the frame and rear shock alone is $3k, and this built bike is $3k, so... I dunno. Worth getting the kit and smashing it for a bit to upgrade later? or hold out and get the whole dream build at once?

benjrblant > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 03/04/2019 at 13:43

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They both have two wheels. That’s about where the similarities end. I’ve owned some motorcycles in my time and I’m well aware of the costs associated with them. Why people seem to think that they’re an apples/apples comparison, I will never know.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 14:16

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I mean the kit on it is by no means unri de able , the NX will need constant adjustment, but the brakes and fork are perfectly serviceable. B ut if you’re like me and want your next bike to be exactly what you want out of the box, then I’d hold out and save.

You could also get this bike, order and install the parts you want, sell the stock ones on pinkbike as take-offs, and you’d come out ahead money- wise than on a custom build. Heck even if you kept the stock parts as spares you’d still probably come out ahead than if you just saved and bought a better model outright. (you should probably do the math yourself on this though)

Also if you haven’t already heck out Guerilla Gravity; made in colorado and they went all carbon this year, and you can spec out your bike exactly how you want. They’re certainly not cheap, but I’m definitely interested in buying from them if my circumstances will allow.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 16:27

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I haven’t ridden a hightower, but I’ve ridden a 5010 and a Bronson, both 2019. The VPP link rear suspension got a big geometry update for 2019. Older ones are less efficient and have a bit more pedal kickback. It’s not a bad design, but it’s not cutting edge anymore. This bike should pedal and climb pretty well for what it is, but it won’t be the best at anything. Being a 29er, it’ll ride like butter and roll over just about anything with ease, but you’ll lose some agility because of that.

Are those frame sizes even right for you? I think this is a bike worth upgrading in the future, but only if you get it at the right price. I wouldn’t spend more than they’re asking, but it is a lot of bike for the money. Then again, if it doesn’t fit you and you don’t like riding it, then don’t buy it. Evo does demos, FYI. Don’t buy a new bike without riding it first.

As for the 1x11, there are a ton of upgrade options available, even ones that will get you a better granny gear. Same goes for the rest of the components. This is very much a budget build carbon frame. It'll get the job done, but I'd keep looking.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 03/04/2019 at 16:30

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I hear the warranty, as far as pivots go, only pays for parts.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 03/04/2019 at 16:32

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X2 on guerilla gravity

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 16:33

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The color might make resell difficult if you don't end up liking the ride.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 16:38

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Your sarcasm detector needs batteries. Pedaling a dirt bike is an absolute pain!

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 03/04/2019 at 16:53

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You’re probably right there, however I was more referring to the lifetime carbon frame warranty, and the fact that Santa Cruz is pretty legendary for their customer service and supporting bikes that have even been discontinued. 

benjrblant > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 03/04/2019 at 17:10

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Yes, I ride a medium frame. I was unaware of the VPP link update.

I think I’m ok with a budget build, as long as the frame and suspension are where I’d like them to be, but I think you might be right in your suggestion to keep looking. I keep going back and forth on this and I just dunno.

benjrblant > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 03/04/2019 at 17:11

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Sarcasm detector broke maybe the 1000th time someone said that same joke. If I could get a dollar for every time I hear that, i’d have both a bicycle and a dirtbike at this point.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 18:04

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Fair enough.

nermal > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 18:07

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Direct is the way to go. No middle-man markup. Use the local shop for service, that’s where they make their $$$ anyways.

Commencal / Canyon / YT are all winning races in the classes they run in on the world stage. Must be doing something right then.

Nothing wrong with an AL frame as long as it’s designed properly. It’s arguably better if you crash a lot.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 03/04/2019 at 18:19

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Oh I’m not trying to knock them. It’s just something to consider. From what I’ve heard they’ve even done crash replacements on frames. But otherwise don’t really have carbon issues, mostly just worn pivots. But I don’t have any firsthand experience 

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > benjrblant 03/04/2019 at 18:26

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I was going back and forth for a while too. Then I rode stuff and talked to a few local shops. That made my mind up pretty quickly. I’m doubling what I initially wanted to spend, but I can afford it, and I couldn’t find what I wanted in my initial price range and the sho p I’m buying from has been amazing.

Check bikeexchange.com also. Found some pretty sweet deals on there.

Pivot Mach 6 XT/XTR , float x2 rear shock upgrade, carbon wheels, and an 11-50 11 speed cassette upgrade, with new shoes and convertible helmet, with over 1500 in discounts to make it happen at a price I’m happy with.

benjrblant > nermal 03/04/2019 at 18:46

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Yes, I recall that you’re a big fan of the direct-to-consumer model. I’ve got nothing against it except for some added difficulty in test riding before buying. I’ll keep an eye out for some demo events.

I’m personally not a fan of aluminum because it is more difficult to repair than steel. Call me a curmudgeon if you’d like, it might be somewhat accurate. At the end of the day, all materials have a failure point and in all likeliness, the specs and standards of the frame will claim it before metal fatigue does.

benjrblant > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 03/04/2019 at 18:53

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Yeah! I recall seeing your post about frame colors. That’s a sweet ride and I hope you really enjoy it this season! 

ST80MND > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 03/08/2019 at 12:52

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I always check Pinkbike first when looking for good bikes at good prices. I find peace of mind knowing it won’t be a stolen bike, and it is being sold by a enthusiast (usually better shape)